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| Question / Comment - The 'Futurist' Interpretation Of Prophecy Is Not Found In The Writings Of The Church Fathers. |
I believe in the Historical interpretation of prophecy. You are a futurist. There are three basic ways to interpret prophecy (only one is correct). The three ways are: Historicism, Futurism, and Preterism. The interesting thing is just where and when these methods of interpretations originated. Historicism was widely accepted up to the early 1900’s but futurism has gradually become the widely accepted method of interpretation today. I encourage you to check it out. You will not find futurism in religious literature prior to the writings of Francisco Ribera (1537-1591).You will find Historical interpretations dating back at least as far as 200 AD.” |
| Note for the above:
The preterist (past)
believes that most, if not all prophecy has already been fulfilled,
usually in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Reply: Irenaeus Justin Martyr Hippolytus -
Appendix to the Works of Hippolytus Hippolytus -
Treatise on Christ and Antichrist The following quotes are from Irenaeus: These are important as he was taught by Polycarp who in turn was discipled by the Apostle John himself. 1. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped -- that is, above every idol -- for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God. 2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chp. 25) Points from the highlighted parts: · Irenaeus believes that the ‘temple of God’ from 2 Thes 2 is speaking about the temple in Jerusalem. After quoting 2 Thes 2 he says that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of God, and the apostle Paul distinctly calls it the temple of God. He does not ‘spiritualize’ this passage away as you would attempt to do, but is quite literal in his interpretation. · He says that ‘the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed…’ and ‘in which the enemy shall sit, endeavoring to show himself as Christ.’ This obviously is exactly as futurists believe. A literal temple, a literal antichrist, a future literal placing of himself in the temple to be proclaimed as God. · To show that the antichrist will sit in the temple in Jerusalem, he quotes from Matt 24:14 where Christ speaks of the abomination of desolation. Clearly, like futurists, Irenaeus saw this as a future event and not related to 70AD as you would.
3. Then,
further on, in the interpretation of the vision, there was said to
him: "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which
shall excel all other kingdoms, and devour the whole earth, and
tread it down, and cut it in pieces. And its ten horns are ten kings
which shall arise; and after them shall arise another, who shall
surpass in evil deeds all that were before him, and shall overthrow
three kings; and he shall speak words against the most high God, and
wear out the saints of the most high God, and shall purpose to
change times and laws; and [everything] shall be given into his
hand until a time of times and a half time," that is, for three
years and six months, during which time, when he comes, he shall
reign over the earth. Of whom also the Apostle Paul again,
speaking in the second [Epistle] to the Thessalonians, and at the
same time proclaiming the cause of his advent, thus says: "And then
shall the wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay
with the spirit of His mouth.”
4.
The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him:
"I have come in my Father's name, and ye have not received Me: when
another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive," calling
Antichrist "the other," because he is alienated from the Lord.
This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one "who
feared not God, neither regarded man," to whom the widow fled in her
forgetfulness of God -- that is, the earthly Jerusalem -- to be
avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his
kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit
in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he
were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: "And he shall
desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice, and
righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active (fecit),
and gone on prosperously." And the angel Gabriel, when explaining
his vision, states with regard to this person: "And towards the end
of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise,
one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full
of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and
put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be
directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his
hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin
many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his
hand like eggs." And then he points out the time that his tyranny
shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who
offer a pure sacrifice unto God: "And in the midst of the week," he
says, "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the
abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even
unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete."
Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.
5.
From all these passages are revealed to us, not merely the
particulars of the apostasy, and [the doings] of him who
concentrates in himself every satanic error, but also, that there is
one and the same God the Father, who was declared by the prophets,
but made manifest by Christ. For if what Daniel prophesied
concerning the end has been confirmed by the Lord, when He said,
"When ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been
spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (and the angel Gabriel gave the
interpretation of the visions to Daniel, and he is the archangel of
the Creator (Demiurgi), who also proclaimed to Mary the visible
coining and the incarnation of Christ), then one and the same God is
most manifestly pointed out, who sent the prophets, and made promise
of the Son, and called us into His knowledge. · From this passage, Irenaeus again emphasis the fact that when Jesus quoted from Daniel in Matt 24:15, it was a prophecy concerning the end times, not 70AD as you would try have me believe. But
he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes
we may avoid him, being aware of who he is:...But when this
Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he
will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple in
Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the
clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who
follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous
the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed
seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in
which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and
from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." – · This passage again brings it out very clearly. Irenaeus says that the antichrist will come, he will reign for three years and six months, and will sit in the temple in Jerusalem. The Lord himself will destroy him and then bring in the times of the Kingdom. The following quote from Justin Martyr (110-165 AD.) is also clear -
"But I
and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points,
are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a
thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built,
adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others
declare."
The following quotes from Hippolytus (AD. 170-236) are again conclusive.
"For
when the threescore and two weeks are fulfilled, and Christ is come,
and the Gospel is preached in every place, the times being then
accomplished, there will remain only one week, the last, in which
Elias will appear, and Enoch, and in the midst of it the abomination
of desolation will be manifested, viz., Antichrist, announcing
desolation to the world...."
"Thus,
then, does the prophet set forth these things concerning the
Antichrist, who shall be shameless, a war-maker, and despot,
who, exalting himself above all kings and above every God, shall
build the city of Jerusalem, and restore the sanctuary. Him the
impious will worship as God, and will bend to him the knee, thinking
him to be the Christ. He shall cut off the two witnesses and
forerunners of Christ, who proclaim His glorious kingdom from
heaven, as it is said: 'And I will give (power) unto my two
witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and
threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.' As also it was announced
to Daniel: 'And one week shall confirm a covenant with many; and in
the midst of the week it shall be that the sacrifice and oblation
shall be removed' - that the one week might be shown to be divided
into two. The two witnesses, then, shall preach three years and a
half; and Antichrist shall make war upon the saints during the test
of the week, and desolate the world, that what is written may be
fulfilled: 'And they shall make the abomination of desolation for a
thousand two hundred and ninety days.'
"And at
first, indeed, that deceitful and lawless one, with crafty
deceitfulness, will refuse such glory; but the men persisting, and
holding by him, will declare him king. And thereafter he will be
lifted up in heart, and he who was formerly gentle will become
violent, and he who pursued love will become pitiless, and the
humble in heart will become haughty and inhuman, and the hater of
unrighteousness will persecute the righteous. Then, when he is
elevated to his kingdom, he will marshal war; and in his wrath he
will smite three mighty kings, - those, namely, of Egypt, Libya, and
Ethiopia. And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem,
and will restore it again speedily, and give it over to the Jews.
And then he will be lifted up in heart against every man; yea, he
will speak blasphemy also against God, thinking in his deceit that
he shall be king upon the earth hereafter for ever; not knowing,
miserable wretch, that his kingdom is to be quickly brought to
nought, and that he will quickly have to meet the fire which is
prepared for him, along with all who trust him and serve him. For
when Daniel said, 'I shall make my covenant for one week,' he
indicated seven years; and the one half of the week is for the
preaching of the prophets, and for the other half of the week - that
is to say, for three years and a half - Antichrist will reign upon
the earth. And after this his kingdom and his glory shall be
taken away. Behold, ye who love God, what manner of tribulation
there shall rise in those days, such as has not been from the
foundation of the world, no, nor ever shall be, except in those days
alone. Then the lawless one, being lifted up in heart, will gather
together his demons in man's form, and will abominate those who call
him to the kingdom, and will pollute many souls."
Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease. By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations. For John says, And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [Hippolytus - Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 43]
------------------------------------- So to recap, from the above quotes I can say that these prominent church fathers believe that -
By anyone's
definition, this is what 'futurists' believe. These church fathers
were not ‘historicalists’ but believed in a literal fulfillment of
these prophecies.
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